Anyway, I can talk about myself forever, and will inevitably do so, but for now lets just examine my arrogan-ahem-elite conversational carving of Gina B. I've crusht this opponent in similar discussions, on philosophy, on religion, and on politics, but tonight I rendered her so impotent of word, that she actually submitted to try again another time, and went to bed, her brains addled by my unrelenting bursts from the diatribe cannon. I BE KILLING THEM WITH LOGIC!
GG Newbs. Bedtime for the champion.
Actually Melissa went to bed a few hours ago, but now its my turn. <3 class="MsoNormal">Gina (1:12:01 AM): went to this really interesting lecture today
Kevin (1:13:26 AM): oh yeah?
Kevin (1:13:27 AM): what on?
Gina (1:13:39 AM): this show based on
Gina (1:13:41 AM): called the wire
Gina (1:13:43 AM): on hbo
Gina (1:14:08 AM): the creator spoke about the background of it: capitalism is the source of all evils in the world
Kevin (1:15:14 AM): haha
Kevin (1:15:25 AM): What do you think of that statement?
Gina (1:15:53 AM): well
Gina (1:15:54 AM): after
Gina (1:15:58 AM): about
Gina (1:16:03 AM): an hour
Gina (1:16:08 AM): I got where he was going
Gina (1:16:24 AM): not the source of all evils, but the source of poverty
Kevin (1:18:32 AM): oh
Kevin (1:18:46 AM): Hm
Kevin (1:18:53 AM): There was poverty before capitalism
Kevin (1:19:27 AM): I mean the feudal model had far more disparity than we have now
Gina (1:20:09 AM): of course
Gina (1:20:26 AM): funny you should say that I’m actually writing a paper on that now
Kevin (1:20:37 AM): BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING
Kevin (1:20:54 AM): So capitalism is the source of poverty in the modern world then?
Gina (1:21:24 AM): well
Gina (1:21:28 AM): to some extent
Kevin (1:21:30 AM): Well of course. It’s a model based upon exploitation. But its attune to human nature isn't it?
Gina (1:21:46 AM): capitalism
Gina (1:21:48 AM): does exactly
Gina (1:21:49 AM): y
Kevin (1:21:49 AM): Enlightened self interest and that jargon?
Gina (1:22:03 AM): the opposite of where it was rooted from
Gina (1:22:08 AM): it devalues people
Gina (1:22:36 AM): the person who gave the lecture
Gina (1:22:39 AM): was a journalist
Gina (1:22:49 AM): worked for the Baltimore sun
Gina (1:23:47 AM): said that through a capitalist society when people are being replaced in their jobs, due to advances in technology or a need that no longer exits
Gina (1:23:56 AM): they lose their value in society
Gina (1:23:59 AM): become poor
Gina (1:24:01 AM): *poor
Gina (1:24:15 AM): some attain a new value
Gina (1:24:24 AM): selling drugs on the nearest street corner
Gina (1:24:33 AM): which to them is their new job
Kevin (1:24:47 AM): So market development will eventually come at the cost of market growth?
Gina (1:24:56 AM): I tend to agree in the aspect that people now only value those who are worth something
Gina (1:25:06 AM): in the sense of the capitalist society
Gina (1:25:46 AM): basically people are only worth what their job in life produces
Gina (1:26:26 AM): those panhandling on the streets are worth nothing to the economy so they themselves are worth nothing in life
Gina (1:26:38 AM): which I agree is what society is like
Gina (1:26:39 AM): but
Gina (1:26:45 AM): it shouldn’t be like that
Kevin (1:27:27 AM): I think that’s fairly simplistic, and ignores philosophical credence
Kevin (1:27:33 AM): What kind of system
Kevin (1:27:37 AM): does this guy advocate
Kevin (1:27:48 AM): to better supplement the worth of life
Gina (1:28:28 AM): the problem
Gina (1:28:29 AM): here
Gina (1:28:35 AM): is he has no answer
Kevin (1:28:39 AM): ha
Gina (1:28:43 AM): he
Gina (1:28:45 AM): says
Gina (1:28:52 AM): well
Gina (1:29:26 AM): first the lecture was called for because he is the creator of a show that centers on the bad things of Baltimore
Gina (1:29:43 AM): and we have this month long thing called "the death and life of great American cities"
Gina (1:30:11 AM): and he says he has no answer to solve the dying of cities such as Baltimore
Gina (1:30:34 AM): in the sense that it is due to a much greater problem: capitalism
Gina (1:30:46 AM): which can only be fixed through people's change of values
Gina (1:31:06 AM): for instance he refers to politicians being concerned with parties
Gina (1:31:26 AM): rather than campaign promises
Gina (1:31:29 AM): I was like yea ok
Gina (1:31:34 AM): like that will change
Kevin (1:32:28 AM): Partisanship, like capitalism, are things that I feel are rooted within human nature, and therefore, the systems therein, while not ideal, simply aim to effectively utilize what is inevitable for a greater good. Yeah.
Gina (1:33:07 AM): not capitalism
Kevin (1:33:16 AM): I think it is
Gina (1:33:22 AM): capitalism came about in the 16th c
Gina (1:33:25 AM): actually
Gina (1:33:26 AM): wait
Gina (1:33:29 AM): 15thish
Kevin (1:33:31 AM): No but
Kevin (1:33:33 AM): self interest
Gina (1:33:37 AM): ok
Gina (1:33:42 AM): well
Kevin (1:33:52 AM): self interest is at the core of humanity
Gina (1:34:05 AM): doesn’t mean we cant change that
Kevin (1:34:10 AM): ...yes it does
Kevin (1:34:23 AM): I think humans are always going to be self interested
Gina (1:34:35 AM): people want only because they have
Kevin (1:34:41 AM): which means there needs to be some incentive. Capitalism is a system that makes GREED the incentive
Kevin (1:34:55 AM): another system could work, but it needs to have something more effective than greed
Gina (1:35:19 AM): capitalism is rooted on greed, pride, and want
Gina (1:35:22 AM): always wanting more
Gina (1:35:25 AM): to be ahead
Gina (1:35:27 AM): and in the end
Kevin (1:35:28 AM): The soviets didn't use greed, but when communism failed them, they relied upon FEAR as incentive
Gina (1:35:31 AM): who cares
Gina (1:35:36 AM): yea
Kevin (1:35:44 AM): Who cares? Well you need something driving an economy
Gina (1:35:45 AM): but see if communism could work
Kevin (1:35:50 AM): Communism cant work
Kevin (1:35:54 AM): the idea is ludicrous
Gina (1:35:56 AM): the theory an
Gina (1:35:58 AM): *can
Kevin (1:36:09 AM): 'from each according to ability to each according to need'
Kevin (1:36:11 AM): awful idea
Kevin (1:36:26 AM): there’s nothing motivating in the theory
Kevin (1:36:40 AM): the theory is based upon humans working for the sake of each other
Kevin (1:36:47 AM): which clashes with self interest
Kevin (1:36:54 AM): so it grinds a society to a halt
Kevin (1:37:07 AM): and is then reactionary
Kevin (1:37:49 AM): I maintain that self interest is integral to human character; For an economic model to work it HAS to utilize it in some way
Kevin (1:38:06 AM): Not saying it has to be capitalism
Gina (1:38:22 AM): ok
Kevin (1:38:26 AM): But moving the populace through greed is preferable to fear
Gina (1:38:43 AM): so you're saying
Kevin (1:38:45 AM): I'd rather be working to try to get better things, rather than to just avoid pain and punishment
Gina (1:38:52 AM): that humans can't work for each other
Kevin (1:38:56 AM): Not saying they cant
Kevin (1:39:01 AM): They do
Kevin (1:39:02 AM): often
Gina (1:39:05 AM): well
Gina (1:39:19 AM): if they all shared the same values
Kevin (1:39:23 AM): they don’t
Gina (1:39:24 AM): it could easily be done
Gina (1:39:30 AM): they could
Kevin (1:39:32 AM): No they cant!
Gina (1:39:43 AM): if the idea that materialistic things worthed nothing
Kevin (1:39:47 AM): how do you ingrain a value system while maintaining freedom?
Gina (1:39:53 AM): society is valuing materials over people
Kevin (1:39:57 AM): The every nature of freedom is a double edged sword!
Gina (1:40:00 AM): it needs to be reversed
Kevin (1:40:13 AM): People are valuing materials over people
Kevin (1:40:20 AM): society just follows suit
Gina (1:40:21 AM): no
Gina (1:40:23 AM): society
Gina (1:40:25 AM): is
Gina (1:40:34 AM): furthering it
Gina (1:40:35 AM): but
Kevin (1:40:41 AM): Society is just the composite of a populace!
Kevin (1:41:20 AM): Society is not an entity unto itself, its the commonality of the people within it
Kevin (1:41:49 AM): People value materials
Gina (1:42:06 AM): why
Gina (1:42:15 AM): why should they
Gina (1:42:20 AM): who tells them to?
Kevin (1:42:26 AM): Because it yields comfort
Gina (1:42:33 AM): uhm
Gina (1:42:34 AM): NO
Kevin (1:42:42 AM): Yes it does
Kevin (1:43:23 AM): I mean
Kevin (1:43:27 AM): I guess you could cite
Kevin (1:43:35 AM): mo money mo problems
Kevin (1:43:36 AM): but
Gina (1:43:51 AM): well
Gina (1:43:54 AM): if people depended
Gina (1:44:01 AM): more on others for survival
Gina (1:44:03 AM): rather than
Gina (1:44:05 AM): money
Gina (1:44:14 AM): they they would value
Gina (1:44:19 AM): the person over the dollar
Kevin (1:44:20 AM): You cant depend on others, you have to depend on yourself.
Gina (1:44:41 AM): what do you depend on yourself for?
Gina (1:44:44 AM): money?
Gina (1:44:46 AM): food?
Kevin (1:44:46 AM): If everyone depends on each other, you have a society full of martyrs
Gina (1:45:05 AM): so at least in the end you'll go to heaven
Kevin (1:45:11 AM): hahaha
Kevin (1:45:23 AM): I depend upon myself to acquire what I need, yes.
Gina (1:45:38 AM): no
Gina (1:45:42 AM): you depend on your parents
Kevin (1:45:48 AM): No I don't.
Gina (1:45:56 AM): I’m kidding
Gina (1:45:56 AM): well
Gina (1:46:00 AM): I’m saying thought
Gina (1:46:08 AM): imagine if money
Gina (1:46:11 AM): didn't exist
Gina (1:46:21 AM): you depended on others for
Gina (1:46:31 AM): essentials
Kevin (1:46:34 AM): Primitivism has its own set of problems
Gina (1:46:44 AM): and rather than valuing goods you value people
Kevin (1:47:06 AM): But then you have to kiss goodbye all the advances that a global market economy gives too
Kevin (1:47:20 AM): the advances in medicine, technology, transportation, communication
Kevin (1:47:31 AM): these all come out of capitalism
Kevin (1:47:34 AM): out of that greed
Kevin (1:48:04 AM): Primitivism, and its harping upon fundamental principles certainly has its merit but
Kevin (1:48:49 AM): there’s a reason the last few hundred years advancement eclipses the progress of the rest of history
Kevin (1:49:27 AM): So for all the bad you're citing, the poor, the hungry, the downtrodden
Kevin (1:49:38 AM): look at all the good that has come out of it too
Kevin (1:50:15 AM): Parity is not the end all and be all, prowess has an absolute as well as a relative value
Kevin (1:50:45 AM): I feel bad that half the world's population is impoverished
Gina (1:51:05 AM): ok
Gina (1:51:06 AM): so
Kevin (1:51:06 AM): I feel bad that right outside there are homeless an hungry
Gina (1:51:12 AM): since it is totally
Gina (1:51:13 AM): that
Gina (1:51:19 AM): *totally
Gina (1:51:21 AM): absurd that
Gina (1:51:39 AM): capitalism be erased
Kevin (1:51:44 AM): its not absurd
Gina (1:51:48 AM): well
Kevin (1:51:57 AM): Its just, I cant think of a BETTER option
Gina (1:52:13 AM): can't capitalism be put toward good
Kevin (1:52:23 AM): Sure, it is. It does its good and bad
Gina (1:52:25 AM): rather than climbing the social ladder
Gina (1:52:42 AM): more bad
Gina (1:52:43 AM): but
Kevin (1:52:45 AM): I believe in moral capitalism
Kevin (1:52:59 AM): I believe it can exist.
Gina (1:53:01 AM): its too bad people
Gina (1:53:09 AM): are inclined to greed
Kevin (1:53:16 AM): Nah
Kevin (1:53:36 AM): Its too bad people are inclined to take the path of least resistance
Kevin (1:53:56 AM): Everyone wants the easiest road possible
Kevin (1:54:06 AM): Not taking a moral high horse here either, me too.
Kevin (1:54:21 AM): And we can bemoan that forever, but its true.
Kevin (1:54:43 AM): greed is just a channel through which people can operate
Kevin (1:54:55 AM): if you’re going to work hard to get what you want good for you.
Kevin (1:55:06 AM): Thing is people in general
Kevin (1:55:12 AM): want to get what they want
Kevin (1:55:14 AM): without working hard
Kevin (1:55:39 AM): 'greed' is a word with almost wholly negative connotation, unless your name is Gordon Gecko
Kevin (1:56:00 AM): self interest escapes that taboo to some extent
Kevin (1:56:07 AM): that’s what fuels a capitalist society
Gina (1:56:11 AM): greed is the result
Gina (1:56:14 AM): of want
Gina (1:56:22 AM): once someone gets what they want
Gina (1:56:31 AM): they automatically want more
Gina (1:56:44 AM): but change people's values
Kevin (1:56:45 AM): I don’t like the word automatically for humanity
Kevin (1:57:12 AM): But you see, changing people's values is impossible through POLICY
Gina (1:57:26 AM): make them see that wanting more and getting more accomplishes nothing in the world but spent money maybe a contribution to the economy
Gina (1:57:40 AM): how is it impossible?
Gina (1:57:46 AM): it will take a really long time
Gina (1:57:48 AM): but
Gina (1:57:51 AM): it can happen
Kevin (1:57:55 AM): Education?
Kevin (1:58:20 AM): You want to educate people to believe that they don’t want things; they just want to help each other?
Kevin (1:58:35 AM): Policy doesn’t dictate values, values dictate policy
Kevin (1:58:51 AM): you cant steer Society, you cant steer culture
Kevin (1:59:20 AM): You can control yourself and no one else
Kevin (1:59:26 AM): and you can preach and you can educate
Kevin (1:59:30 AM): and by all means, do
Kevin (1:59:31 AM): but
Kevin (1:59:44 AM): In a free society, self interest reigns supreme
Kevin (1:59:57 AM): and I cannot think of a higher virtue that that of freedom
Kevin (2:00:03 AM): freedom and justice
Kevin (2:00:19 AM): those are the twin pillars upon which a government SHOULD rest its laurels
Gina (2:01:06 AM): in a free society while you may see self interest reigns
Kevin (2:01:10 AM): Government's goal in my opinion should be to find a healthy balance of each in a constantly changing and vastly incomprehensible world
Gina (2:01:11 AM): where is it that
Gina (2:01:23 AM): society, rather people
Gina (2:01:26 AM): get this idea
Kevin (2:01:49 AM): And government being inevitable within any society, I feel like that’s the ideal the entire world should strive for.
Kevin (2:02:00 AM): But maybe I'm just too American :-)
Gina (2:02:08 AM): the problems is the government's job
Gina (2:02:09 AM): rather
Gina (2:02:25 AM): what they're job is supposed to be
Kevin (2:02:55 AM): Self interest isn't an idea that’s planted in peoples head
Kevin (2:02:57 AM): its instinct
Gina (2:02:58 AM): while it is spelled out
Kevin (2:03:00 AM): its natural
Gina (2:03:01 AM): they should also
Gina (2:03:12 AM): be setting an example for their people
Gina (2:03:13 AM): and
Kevin (2:03:19 AM): you are born and your concern is yourself, to self-sustain
Gina (2:03:24 AM): showing self interest
Gina (2:03:27 AM): yea ok Hobbes
Kevin (2:03:31 AM): haha
Kevin (2:03:34 AM): I am NOT Hobbes
Gina (2:03:39 AM): hmm
Kevin (2:03:41 AM): Leviathan ftl
Gina (2:03:45 AM): hahah
Kevin (2:03:44 AM): I’m a libertarian
Gina (2:03:47 AM): ok
Kevin (2:03:48 AM): puh-leeeeeeeeeease
Gina (2:03:57 AM): and selfish
Kevin (2:03:59 AM): Maybe
Gina (2:04:02 AM): you can self sustain
Gina (2:04:04 AM): while
Gina (2:04:09 AM): helping others
Kevin (2:04:11 AM): sure
Kevin (2:04:13 AM): of course
Gina (2:04:17 AM): but
Gina (2:04:20 AM): I mean
Kevin (2:04:23 AM): morality is vital in building a healthy society
Kevin (2:04:41 AM): but self interest is vital to maintaining society itself
Kevin (2:04:44 AM): what the aim is
Kevin (2:05:10 AM): is to have a society that is self-sustaining but is also
Kevin (2:05:32 AM): charitable
Kevin (2:05:54 AM): I do not want to have to rely on another for what I need
Kevin (2:05:59 AM): I want that accountability
Kevin (2:06:04 AM): I want to control my own destiny
Kevin (2:06:17 AM): However
Gina (2:06:22 AM): you can't
Kevin (2:06:24 AM): if I am efficient enough
Gina (2:06:27 AM): no
Kevin (2:06:29 AM): No, no man is an island
Kevin (2:06:45 AM): but to STRIVE to be is what enlightened self interest is
Kevin (2:06:47 AM): capitalism
Kevin (2:06:54 AM): is the way in which
Kevin (2:07:02 AM): self interest brings necessities together
Kevin (2:07:12 AM): its how we can self sustain through cooperation
Kevin (2:07:22 AM): And to boot, progress
Kevin (2:07:55 AM): what I was saying is
Kevin (2:08:06 AM): however if I am efficient enough to provide for myself and have excess
Kevin (2:08:33 AM): I feel a moral obligation to aid those who are unfortunate or even inefficient
Kevin (2:08:37 AM): out of goodwill
Gina (2:08:44 AM): whatever I still feel that
Gina (2:08:46 AM): communism
Gina (2:08:51 AM): is a great theory
Gina (2:08:56 AM): which if altered
Gina (2:09:00 AM): to a certain extend
Gina (2:09:05 AM): *extend
Gina (2:09:08 AM): *extent
Kevin (2:09:08 AM): And I still feel like its a great thing to jerk off about :-)
Gina (2:09:10 AM): could work
Gina (2:09:16 AM): shut up
Kevin (2:09:18 AM): haha
Kevin (2:09:28 AM): Well I can’t see it
Gina (2:09:29 AM): gotta go though
Kevin (2:09:34 AM): Good night!
Gina (2:09:35 AM): give me some time
Gina (2:09:42 AM): I’ll come up with a good idea
Kevin (2:09:48 AM): Hey if you can work it out, I'm all ears
Gina (2:09:48 AM): later kid
Kevin (2:09:53 AM): peace girl
Gina signed off at 2:10:02 AM.
Gina (1:04:24 PM): hey kid
Kevin (1:04:24 PM): hey
Kevin (1:04:29 PM): there are plenty of dumb liberals
Kevin (1:04:34 PM): and plenty of dumb conservatives
Kevin (1:04:47 PM): there are even like, smart anarchists and smart authoritarians!
Gina (1:04:58 PM): I know
Kevin (1:04:59 PM): Debbie Downer hahaha
Gina (1:05:08 PM): I was joking
Gina (1:05:10 PM): what?
Gina (1:05:20 PM): hey always look on the bright side
Kevin (1:05:19 PM): You called me a Debbie downer, that’s something like, my grandma would say
Gina (1:05:30 PM): hey
Gina (1:05:36 PM): I use that phrase all the time
Kevin (1:05:35 PM): you're no longer girl, your grandma
Gina (1:05:41 PM): cause I’m an optimist
Gina (1:05:44 PM): NO
Kevin (1:05:46 PM): I'm an optimist too, grandma
Gina (1:05:57 PM): my friend from Denver
Gina (1:06:02 PM): got into a fight
Kevin (1:05:58 PM): There's optimism, and there's delusion!
Gina (1:06:06 PM): with me
Gina (1:06:07 PM): about
Gina (1:06:10 PM): Debbie downer
Gina (1:06:11 PM): vs.
Gina (1:06:15 PM): negative Nancy
---
Kevin (1:14:08 PM): Wait so
Kevin (1:14:17 PM): are you going to tell me how communism is suddenly going to work
Gina (1:14:27 PM): no
Gina (1:14:29 PM): I have work
Gina (1:14:31 PM): soon
Gina (1:14:33 PM): well at 3
Kevin (1:14:29 PM): hahaah
Gina (1:14:36 PM): it will take long
---
Gina (1:17:16 PM): have you ever seen the movie "pay it forward"
Kevin (1:17:21 PM): I saw the end of it when the kid dies
Gina (1:17:28 PM): oh
Gina (1:17:29 PM): well
Gina (1:17:36 PM): you get the concept though right?
Kevin (1:17:35 PM): that’s your idea for communism?
Kevin (1:17:37 PM): Yeah.
Kevin (1:17:54 PM): Yeah, charity is a fantastic institution but its not an engine
Kevin (1:17:59 PM): you cant run a society on charity
Gina (1:18:15 PM): wait
Gina (1:18:16 PM): no
Gina (1:18:19 PM): I didn't say that
Gina (1:18:25 PM): don't put words into my mouth
Kevin (1:18:23 PM): I’m out for blood
Gina (1:18:28 PM): I was saying
Kevin (1:18:26 PM): RED blood
Gina (1:18:32 PM): did u get the concept
Kevin (1:18:29 PM): yes
Gina (1:18:36 PM): ok
Gina (1:18:37 PM): well
Gina (1:18:44 PM): my idea of communism
Gina (1:18:47 PM): is BASED
Gina (1:18:50 PM): on a SIMILAR
Gina (1:18:52 PM): theory
Gina (1:19:03 PM): have you read utopia?
Kevin (1:19:19 PM): ooh, we are this semester in political theory
Kevin (1:19:24 PM): haven’t gotten a chance to yet
Gina (1:19:32 PM): excellent
Gina (1:19:36 PM): *excellent
Gina (1:19:52 PM): that’s communism at its finest
Gina (1:19:57 PM): no capitalism
Kevin (1:19:56 PM): hahahaaha
Gina (1:20:08 PM): what
Gina (1:20:23 PM): it only works because people
Gina (1:20:31 PM): don't have a value for a dollar
Gina (1:20:37 PM): money is meaningless
Kevin (1:20:48 PM): You know what utopia means right?
Gina (1:21:46 PM): I know
Gina (1:21:51 PM): nonexistent place
Gina (1:21:53 PM): imaginary
Gina (1:21:54 PM): BUT
Kevin (1:21:53 PM): hahaha
Gina (1:21:58 PM): it works
Kevin (1:21:56 PM): no it doesn't
Gina (1:22:05 PM): it could
Kevin (1:22:19 PM): It never has.
Gina (1:22:28 PM): again
Gina (1:22:32 PM): Debbie downer
Kevin (1:22:32 PM): It never will.
Kevin (1:22:50 PM): If I'm Debbie downer, you're Debbie delusion
Kevin (1:23:11 PM): You're talking about changing people on the most fundamental scale
Gina (1:23:30 PM): hey
Gina (1:23:34 PM): you can't change people
Gina (1:23:43 PM): people will eventually change themselves
Gina (1:23:49 PM): its gonna get much worse in society
Gina (1:23:59 PM): before it even begins to get remotely
Gina (1:24:00 PM): better
Gina (1:24:06 PM): and then people will realize
Kevin (1:24:03 PM): Nonsense, society has improved greatly over time
Gina (1:24:10 PM): that people
Gina (1:24:12 PM): s
Kevin (1:24:09 PM): its an upward trend, not a downward
Gina (1:24:17 PM): lives are worth more than money
Gina (1:24:19 PM): NO
Gina (1:24:20 PM): its not
Gina (1:24:22 PM): look around
Gina (1:24:46 PM): on one side of a city people are living these luxurious wealthy lives
Gina (1:25:00 PM): and the other side it is like a third world country
Gina (1:25:46 PM): where diseases like aids and stds spread like wild fire, they are lacking the basic necessities to live a healthy life
Kevin (1:25:49 PM): Yes it is. Twenty years ago poverty was far more rampant in absolute terms. Fifty years ago much of the population was denied basic civil rights. Less than a hundred years ago, women couldn't vote. A hundred and fifty years ago slavery was an institution. And these have been the best two centuries for human kind! haha
Gina (1:25:57 PM): and all society tries to do is put a curtain up
Gina (1:25:59 PM): and hide them
Gina (1:26:13 PM): so
Gina (1:26:15 PM): racism
Gina (1:26:19 PM): is worse today
Gina (1:26:31 PM): because there is this invisible dominance
Kevin (1:26:43 PM): Gina, AIDS? Aids is progress when you consider that the black death wiped out a third of Europe
Kevin (1:26:56 PM): Or the plight of the native Americans
Gina (1:27:03 PM): poverty, racism, inequality are getting much worse
Kevin (1:27:03 PM): No, they're not
Gina (1:27:14 PM): just everyone thinks they’re getting better
Gina (1:27:22 PM): cause people are getting better
Gina (1:27:25 PM): at hiding it
Kevin (1:27:33 PM): We are becoming increasingly globalized!
Gina (1:28:19 PM): why there are advances in medicine and technology
Kevin (1:28:18 PM): Racism? Gina was were fought over race in the past, people were literally shipped as commodity., black men were worth 3/5th of a human being in their owner's name within the last 200 hundred years
Gina (1:28:26 PM): who can afford them?
Gina (1:28:46 PM): have you ever heard of sundown towns
Kevin (1:28:45 PM): How would there be advances in medicine if there was no profit in it?
Gina (1:28:54 PM): white racial privilege
Gina (1:28:57 PM): INVISIBLE
Gina (1:29:21 PM): white racial privilege
Gina (1:29:40 PM): and all major corporations have to offer is scandal and corruption
Kevin (1:29:38 PM): sundown towns are hardly prevalent anymore, that’s progress
Gina (1:29:47 PM): BS
Gina (1:29:53 PM): they're still evident
Gina (1:29:57 PM): and existent
Kevin (1:30:01 PM): wholly debatable
Gina (1:30:08 PM): ok
Gina (1:30:09 PM): fie
Gina (1:30:12 PM): *fine
Gina (1:30:21 PM): I’ll find a link
Gina (1:30:24 PM): to send you
Kevin (1:30:21 PM): Look I’m not saying race isn’t an issue
Gina (1:30:31 PM): that says where they are still exist
Gina (1:30:34 PM): ing
Kevin (1:30:32 PM): I’m saying that its an issue that is getting better
Kevin (1:30:33 PM): not worse
Gina (1:30:41 PM): no
Gina (1:30:45 PM): contrary
Kevin (1:30:49 PM): Minorities were not considered human beings Gina!
Gina (1:30:54 PM): you should just see
Gina (1:31:09 PM): how the kids here act
Gina (1:31:18 PM): we're a 4% diverse university
Gina (1:31:26 PM): located in a 75% black neighborhood
Gina (1:31:30 PM): where kids are scared
Kevin (1:31:29 PM): Do they lynch black men for looking at white women? Is that common Gina?
Gina (1:31:35 PM): to step off campus
Gina (1:31:43 PM): because of the black neighborhood
Kevin (1:31:40 PM): Because, you know, it was
Kevin (1:31:55 PM): A hundred years ago it could happen and no one would be found guilty
Gina (1:32:06 PM): no but they're quick to think a black man is pulling out a gun rather than a wallet
Gina (1:32:26 PM): look at the number
Gina (1:32:32 PM): of black people on death row
Kevin (1:32:28 PM): So you're saying stereotypes are worse then active racism?
Gina (1:32:36 PM): and then the number
Gina (1:32:37 PM): who
Gina (1:32:37 PM): are
Gina (1:32:43 PM): or were
Gina (1:32:49 PM): found to be innocent
Gina (1:32:53 PM): right before execution
Gina (1:32:58 PM): yes
Gina (1:33:02 PM): stereotypes are
Gina (1:33:07 PM): because they are invisible
Gina (1:33:09 PM): hidden
Gina (1:33:16 PM): it still
Gina (1:33:20 PM): creates a white dominance
Gina (1:33:23 PM): over minorities
Kevin (1:33:30 PM): You've constructed a nice little liberal facade for yourself missy, that’s what college does though
Gina (1:33:46 PM): no
Gina (1:33:50 PM): I’m just well educated
Kevin (1:33:58 PM): You just told me that stereotypes are worse then lynching
Gina (1:34:07 PM): no
Gina (1:34:21 PM): actually
Gina (1:34:23 PM): yes they are
Gina (1:34:26 PM): ok
Kevin (1:34:24 PM): hahaha
Gina (1:34:31 PM): fine
Gina (1:34:33 PM): I’ll admit it
Gina (1:34:35 PM): no
Gina (1:34:40 PM): well
Gina (1:34:41 PM): then again
Gina (1:34:48 PM): what does stereotypes lead to
Gina (1:34:51 PM): violence
Gina (1:34:52 PM): and
Gina (1:34:53 PM): death
Gina (1:34:54 PM): so
Kevin (1:34:54 PM): Alright Gina, you find me someone who would rather be lynched then have assumptions made about them because of their color
Kevin (1:35:03 PM): and I will give you some credence.
Gina (1:35:20 PM): hey I’m entitled to my opinions
Gina (1:35:21 PM): and
Gina (1:35:30 PM): while lynches may not exist
Gina (1:35:33 PM): there are still
Gina (1:35:45 PM): well
Gina (1:35:51 PM): actually
Gina (1:35:53 PM): they do exist
Gina (1:35:57 PM): why are fags
Kevin (1:35:56 PM): I'm not disagreeing with you Gina, I'm telling you that to say that we're digressing, rather then progressing, is a ludicrous statement.
Gina (1:36:00 PM): called fags
Gina (1:36:01 PM): and
Gina (1:36:10 PM): society
Gina (1:36:18 PM): is at its worse
Gina (1:36:25 PM): and its not going to become better
Gina (1:36:34 PM): poverty is going to increased
Kevin (1:36:30 PM): Homosexuality's acceptance in society is a perfect example
Gina (1:36:37 PM): *increase
Kevin (1:37:00 PM): are there still obstacles? Yes. But has their status benefited over time? Yes!
Kevin (1:37:17 PM): Things today are infinitely times better for gay men and women then they were in the past
Kevin (1:37:28 PM): how can you say that things are getting worse for that facet of society?
Gina (1:37:35 PM): I think they are the same
Gina (1:37:36 PM): or worse
Gina (1:37:42 PM): just not as evident
Gina (1:37:53 PM): well
Kevin (1:37:54 PM): Okay, you're entitled to your opinion, you're just... wrong.
Gina (1:38:00 PM): gay and lesbian schools opened
Kevin (1:38:01 PM): :0
Kevin (1:38:02 PM): :-)
Gina (1:38:08 PM): that just increases
Gina (1:38:10 PM): the divide
Gina (1:38:22 PM): making
Gina (1:38:29 PM): them feel more as social
Gina (1:38:31 PM): outcasts
Kevin (1:38:27 PM): Do catholic schools increase the divide?
Gina (1:38:37 PM): not accepted by society
Gina (1:38:39 PM): yes they do
Kevin (1:38:39 PM): Do elite private schools increase the divide?
Gina (1:38:45 PM): in catholic school
Gina (1:38:47 PM): they teach us
Kevin (1:38:46 PM): Do people get forced into these schools?
Gina (1:38:53 PM): that we're better
Gina (1:38:54 PM): than
Kevin (1:38:52 PM): No, that’s FREEDOM Gina
Gina (1:39:02 PM): in kids in public schools
Gina (1:39:05 PM): s
Gina (1:39:14 PM): yes
Gina (1:39:15 PM): but
Gina (1:39:20 PM): they go there
Kevin (1:39:18 PM): You are free to choose where you want to go. There has not been a gay man forced to go to 'gays school'
Gina (1:39:26 PM): because they don't feel accepted
Gina (1:39:30 PM): they find acceptance
Gina (1:39:35 PM): at these schools
Gina (1:39:54 PM): they find community
Kevin (1:39:51 PM): good for them then
Gina (1:40:00 PM): in being social outcasts
Gina (1:40:04 PM): they still are not
Gina (1:40:09 PM): able to do the same things
Kevin (1:40:07 PM): hey shouldn’t be forced to suffer because society is not wholly tolerant
Gina (1:40:20 PM): has heterosexuals
Kevin (1:40:22 PM): You cant force society to be tolerant, its the cumulative opinion of all people
Kevin (1:40:39 PM): Yes Gina, I know, but that doesn’t mean progress isn’t being made
Gina (1:40:55 PM): it is
Gina (1:40:56 PM): but
Kevin (1:40:52 PM): you cant just say 'this is how things should be' and then they are
Kevin (1:40:54 PM): change takes time
Gina (1:41:01 PM): because things
Gina (1:41:04 PM): are getting so much worse
Kevin (1:41:09 PM): NO THEY ARE NOT, I THOUGHT YOU WERE AN OPTIMIST
Kevin (1:41:10 PM): hahaha
Gina (1:41:17 PM): thing will get better
Gina (1:41:19 PM): THEY WILL
Gina (1:41:21 PM): I know
Gina (1:41:22 PM): I am
Gina (1:41:22 PM): but
Gina (1:41:25 PM): first
Kevin (1:41:21 PM): They are getting better
Kevin (1:41:24 PM): Not evenly
Gina (1:41:31 PM): things have to get worse
Gina (1:41:35 PM): and I can tolerate that
Kevin (1:41:36 PM): things don’t move at an even pace, and sometimes there are steps back
Gina (1:41:45 PM): I’m a pessimist who looks on the bright side
Kevin (1:41:43 PM): but time, as a rule, moves forward.
Gina (1:41:51 PM): people will come to their sense eventually
Gina (1:42:02 PM): but I’ll be in my grave first
Kevin (1:42:04 PM): You cant be a pessimist he looks on the bright side, that makes no sense, haha
Gina (1:42:16 PM): hey
Gina (1:42:18 PM): I’m just
Gina (1:42:19 PM): me
Kevin (1:42:14 PM): Yes. Unfortunately we will never live in a utopia
Gina (1:42:25 PM): it will happen
Gina (1:42:32 PM): things will get much worse
Gina (1:42:37 PM): before they get any better
Gina (1:42:42 PM): but
Kevin (1:42:42 PM): No, a utopia will never exist
Gina (1:42:48 PM): you just have to make them
Gina (1:42:52 PM): be sustainable
Gina (1:42:54 PM): for now
Gina (1:42:58 PM): by trying
Gina (1:43:01 PM): to make things better
Kevin (1:43:08 PM): a utopia can only exist once free will is stripped away from humanity, and that is no ideal place, not for me
Gina (1:43:21 PM): a different kind of utopia will exist
Kevin (1:43:26 PM): I have faith that heaven is a utopia, due to enlightenment
Gina (1:43:36 PM): you choose to be in utopia
Gina (1:43:46 PM): I thought you don't believe
Kevin (1:43:50 PM): I believe in heaven, I don’t believe in hell
Kevin (1:43:59 PM): I don’t believe there is such thing as eternal damnation
Gina (1:44:15 PM): I believe heaven is what you make of it
Gina (1:44:17 PM): and hell
Gina (1:44:24 PM): is not believing in a heaven
Kevin (1:44:39 PM): I believe in an afterlife, that’s why I believe there’s purpose on earth, and that purpose is to suffer things, to live in a completely unperfected environment, where you have to make choices, where you have to learn
Kevin (1:45:05 PM): we learn from our mistakes right? And we make mistakes because we're free to, and because we don't know better, right?
Kevin (1:45:18 PM): That’s why I believe earth exists
Kevin (1:45:23 PM): So we can learn from mistakes
Kevin (1:45:29 PM): and that’s why things will never be perfect here
Kevin (1:45:34 PM): because we're free to make mistakes
Gina (1:45:46 PM): perfection
Kevin (1:45:43 PM): we're free to do terrible things
Gina (1:45:52 PM): is unachievable
Gina (1:45:57 PM): but in utopia
Gina (1:46:05 PM): that’s everyone's aims
Kevin (1:46:05 PM): No, you don't shoot for the stars
Kevin (1:46:13 PM): Not everyone will
Kevin (1:46:28 PM): You cant tell everyone 'strive to be perfect so that you will at least be good'
Kevin (1:46:31 PM): not everyone will do that
Gina (1:46:47 PM): not perfection in the same sense
Gina (1:46:48 PM): but
Kevin (1:46:48 PM): Everyone wants to preserve their own self interests, generally through the easiest route possible
Gina (1:47:02 PM): ok Hobbes
Gina (1:47:03 PM): but
Kevin (1:47:07 PM): hahaha its a fact of life madam
Kevin (1:47:21 PM): And my ideas are not the least bit hobbesian
Gina (1:47:28 PM): so for communism
Gina (1:47:30 PM): to work
Gina (1:47:38 PM): people
Gina (1:47:49 PM): need to lose pride and self interest
Gina (1:47:49 PM): and
Gina (1:47:53 PM): that’s only going to happen
Kevin (1:47:49 PM): I like John Locke, and Adam Smith, and Voltaire
Gina (1:48:01 PM): once things in society get sooo worse
Gina (1:48:10 PM): then they will realize
Kevin (1:48:15 PM): Locke is the antithesis of Hobbes
Kevin (1:48:24 PM): THE SOCIETY IS NOT GETTING WORSE THOUGH
Kevin (1:48:36 PM): SOCIETY IS GETTING BETTER, LOOK AT HISTORY
Gina (1:48:43 PM): it is
Gina (1:48:47 PM): slowly
Kevin (1:48:45 PM): Its a slow grind, yes
Gina (1:48:52 PM): and then it will get much worse
Kevin (1:48:49 PM): No
Kevin (1:48:51 PM): It wont
Gina (1:48:57 PM): IT WILL
Gina (1:48:59 PM): just wait
Kevin (1:48:55 PM): why would it suddenly get worse?
Gina (1:49:02 PM): and when it does
Gina (1:49:10 PM): people will realize
Kevin (1:49:05 PM): When all of time has shown it to be improving
Gina (1:49:16 PM): not suddenly
Gina (1:49:17 PM): I’m saying
Kevin (1:49:15 PM): there may be some hiccups, some down times
Gina (1:49:20 PM): its gonna take
Gina (1:49:24 PM): A very long time
Kevin (1:49:23 PM): but progress rights itself
Gina (1:49:31 PM): its getting worse
Gina (1:49:33 PM): gonna get
Kevin (1:49:28 PM): inevitably things get better
Gina (1:49:34 PM): much rose
Gina (1:49:35 PM): then
Gina (1:49:36 PM): get better
Gina (1:49:48 PM): people are just under a false illusion
Gina (1:49:53 PM): of getting better
Kevin (1:50:03 PM): and you're a liberal, and you're well educated, so you know better.
Kevin (1:50:07 PM): haha
Gina (1:50:45 PM): fine think what you want
Kevin (1:50:43 PM): Oh dear. I think that the logistical impossibilities of communism are what are eluding you!
Gina (1:50:49 PM): and I’ll think what I want
Gina (1:50:54 PM): but
Gina (1:50:56 PM): then again
Gina (1:51:46 PM): I’m not saying that I’m right I’m just saying from my experience and what I have learned so far that is how I feel
Gina (1:51:52 PM): like you don't have to read books
Gina (1:51:54 PM): to see it
Kevin (1:51:52 PM): It would be a reactionary shift, and one that would slow progress, turn it backwards, until it righted itself, after much anguish; see figure 1-A: SOVIET UNION.
Gina (1:51:58 PM): you just have to live it
Kevin (1:52:10 PM): I just have to live it?
Gina (1:52:23 PM): yea
Gina (1:52:26 PM): see how
Gina (1:52:29 PM): the "other
Gina (1:52:30 PM): is
Kevin (1:52:52 PM): I live in
Gina (1:53:05 PM): well then
Kevin (1:53:02 PM): I live in
Kevin (1:53:31 PM): there are more different cultures and languages represented in a few miles of queens then anywhere else in the world.
Gina (1:53:43 PM): I live in Baltimore the most drug ridden region
Gina (1:53:44 PM): and
Gina (1:53:48 PM): yet
Gina (1:53:55 PM): less then an hour ride away
Gina (1:53:56 PM): you have
Gina (1:53:58 PM): dc
Kevin (1:54:03 PM): DC is an awfully decrepit city
Gina (1:54:29 PM): certain parts
Kevin (1:54:32 PM): Other than the white zones around the government, its a festering hole
Kevin (1:54:51 PM): with stagnant economies and poor conditions for multitudes of impoverished minorities
Gina (1:55:11 PM): who instead of getting the help they are needed
Gina (1:55:19 PM): are being pushed out of the public's view
Gina (1:55:41 PM): Baltimore’s shelters and food services
Gina (1:55:49 PM): are being pushed under a high way
Gina (1:55:58 PM): so they are not near the business district
Kevin (1:56:20 PM): Who's responsibility is it to help them? And why should the public care? The public all have their own lives to worry about. Of course I think we need to do things to help them, but you can't just issue an edict 'care about these people' and it is done, is what I’m saying
Gina (1:56:31 PM): they only thing the mayor cannot control is the services the church provides because they own thru own land
Kevin (1:56:43 PM): No, they're being pushed out because they don’t make enough money to sustain themselves in a business district
Gina (1:56:56 PM): no
Kevin (1:57:09 PM): when you run something non profit, you inevitably cannot compete with more marketable ventures
Kevin (1:57:23 PM): You have to rely on public interest and government support to maintain station
Kevin (1:57:29 PM): so if that wanes, then you’re under the highway
Kevin (1:58:20 PM): There are more chances for money to be made, people to be employed, self sustenance, if a business acquires that location
Kevin (1:58:39 PM): then those who work there are subtracted form those who need welfare
Kevin (1:58:56 PM): That’s the goal of capitalism!
Kevin (1:59:22 PM): It too is not wholly accomplishable, and that’s why shelters and other charitable and social interests need to be funded
Kevin (2:00:20 PM): but it would be ridiculous and counter productive to limit business and money making opportunities which would sustain PEOPLE in the interest of providing a better location for those who cannot sustain themselves
Kevin (2:01:24 PM): To quote nick stano "The homeless have no homes" so they can get to the shelter under the highway anyway. The service is still being provided, except now there is an additional outlet for progress.
Gina (2:01:50 PM): just the corporations coming in
Kevin (2:01:50 PM): Business needs to appeal to customers, and it has to use its profit to continue, it deserves to use the better venue
Gina (2:01:57 PM): don't have use for those on poverty level
Gina (2:02:17 PM): better venue?
Gina (2:02:21 PM): ok
Gina (2:02:22 PM): well
Gina (2:02:29 PM): I’m
Gina (2:02:30 PM): well
Kevin (2:03:06 PM): No one has use for the impoverished Gina, they're not a commodity. They're a group that needs aid, but can give nothing back, that’s not a business interest, and other then charity and good will, can not be accounted for in a successful business model.
Kevin (2:03:42 PM): I am all for government help and I think the most important thing in the world is education, I want to help the forgotten peoples of America
Gina (2:03:59 PM): I’m really frustrated
Kevin (2:03:58 PM): I just don’t think you can force society to adopt them in addition to their own interests
Kevin (2:04:01 PM): What’s wrong?
Gina (2:04:14 PM): no
Gina (2:04:19 PM): *no
Gina (2:04:21 PM): you just
Gina (2:04:25 PM): don't see it
Kevin (2:04:37 PM): Haha, I guess I don't see things your way, at least.
Gina (2:04:51 PM): you're just blind
Gina (2:04:55 PM): to the situation
Kevin (2:05:03 PM): I understand your concerns Gina; I just don’t think your solutions have any merit. They wouldn't WORK.
Gina (2:05:30 PM): I don't have solutions
Gina (2:05:32 PM): just hope
Gina (2:05:40 PM): that after everything gets much worse
Gina (2:05:41 PM): people
Gina (2:05:44 PM): will realize
Gina (2:05:44 PM): that
Gina (2:05:50 PM): its their own selfish pride
Gina (2:06:03 PM): that has made the world come to what it will be
Kevin (2:06:01 PM): So you're rooting for a post-apocalyptical!
Kevin (2:06:04 PM): hahaha
Kevin (2:06:39 PM): I think you have a pretty defeatist attitude because these are not easy problems with easy answers.
Kevin (2:06:54 PM): Listen, I don’t have the answers EITHER
Gina (2:07:16 PM): people just need to
Kevin (2:07:12 PM): I just think its better to try to approach the problems realistically rather than idealistically
Gina (2:07:19 PM): be aware first
Gina (2:07:38 PM): so realistically speaking you mean education
Gina (2:07:47 PM): and I mean realization
Kevin (2:08:53 PM): Very nice sentiment Gina, its just unworkable. This is why government frustrates, because its millions of people trying to do what they think is best, but everyone has their own self interests.
Kevin (2:09:02 PM): You have your own self interests too, of course.
Gina (2:09:07 PM): well
Gina (2:09:13 PM): don't start talking about government
Gina (2:09:19 PM): they have their own problems
Kevin (2:09:26 PM): Government is the problem, and it’s also the solution!
Gina (2:09:39 PM): they are only interested
Kevin (2:09:46 PM): Its inevitable but its the singular direct control valve there is on society
Gina (2:10:54 PM): well
Gina (2:10:55 PM): then
Gina (2:11:02 PM): the only place to start
Gina (2:11:04 PM): is by
Gina (2:11:15 PM): addressing the issues through realization
Gina (2:11:15 PM): and
Kevin (2:11:16 PM): hahaha
Gina (2:11:28 PM): revamping the government
Kevin (2:11:30 PM): You can't make 'realization' a policy
Gina (2:11:39 PM): UH
Gina (2:11:41 PM): YEA
Kevin (2:11:37 PM): oh, revamping the government hahaha
Gina (2:11:50 PM): just show people
Gina (2:11:51 PM): that
Gina (2:12:05 PM): there's more than the life they're living
Gina (2:12:08 PM): awareness
Gina (2:12:11 PM): is key
Kevin (2:12:16 PM): You can show people images, you can show people words, you can show people statistics, but its up to people to draw their own conclusions.
Kevin (2:12:55 PM): Fact is, most people have too much to worry about in their own life to accept all the other problems in the world.
Kevin (2:13:40 PM): You know, my problems trump
Gina (2:13:58 PM): why
Gina (2:14:07 PM): see that’s the problem
Gina (2:14:12 PM): people only care for 2 reasons
Kevin (2:14:13 PM): So I lose far more sleep over a fight with my girlfriend or a lack of spending money or a test then I ever will over darfur.
Gina (2:14:20 PM): 1. if it is harming them or
Gina (2:14:31 PM): 2. if it involves oil
Kevin (2:14:31 PM): No
Kevin (2:14:39 PM): People care about themselves, and those directly around them
Kevin (2:15:04 PM): You care more about getting your homework done then you do about saving the children in Darfur, admit it
Gina (2:15:17 PM): now I do
Kevin (2:15:14 PM): That doesn't make you a bad person, its just reality
Gina (2:15:29 PM): if I could
Gina (2:15:38 PM): I would be in darfur
Kevin (2:15:34 PM): That’s how society functions, everyone has their own agenda to address
Gina (2:15:43 PM): over doing my homework
Kevin (2:15:49 PM): You could be, if that was really your priority, Miss
Gina (2:15:57 PM): doesn't mean you still can't help
Kevin (2:15:54 PM): What would you do there? I don’t know.
Kevin (2:16:03 PM): I would no encourage you to go there
Gina (2:16:23 PM): I would be there in heartbeat
Kevin (2:16:25 PM): your life is worth everything, you do not need to devote it to everyone else, you only have one, you have to live it for yourself.
Gina (2:16:31 PM): if I offered anything
Gina (2:16:34 PM): but I don't
Gina (2:16:39 PM): so I do what I can
Gina (2:16:40 PM): I send money
Gina (2:16:43 PM): stay informed
Kevin (2:16:54 PM): Nice. Charity. Its part of society, and that’s what we can manage on the side
Gina (2:17:03 PM): and I want to live if for myself by living it for others
Gina (2:17:25 PM): plus
Gina (2:17:31 PM): its like this
Gina (2:18:05 PM): you said
Gina (2:18:11 PM): people have too much in their lives
Kevin (2:18:09 PM): I want to help others too, I’m just not going to absolve all of my own wants and needs for everyone else's and neither are you. Enlightened self interest. Its human nature.
Gina (2:18:18 PM): to accept or deal with other problems
Gina (2:18:37 PM): if more people are aware
Gina (2:18:39 PM): then
Kevin (2:18:50 PM): There’s a limit to how much any person can do
Gina (2:19:00 PM): there is more chance that people who are wiling
Gina (2:19:02 PM): to help will
Gina (2:19:05 PM): well
Gina (2:19:07 PM): for instance
Gina (2:19:10 PM): government
Gina (2:19:20 PM): is a big part of getting things accomplished
Kevin (2:19:20 PM): I for instance cant even manage to give my closest friends much of my time, how can I be expected to go out of my way to help uphold all of society
Gina (2:19:29 PM): how easy is it for someone to lobby congress
Kevin (2:19:33 PM): easy as having money
Kevin (2:19:36 PM): or connections.
Gina (2:19:42 PM): uhm
Gina (2:19:44 PM): no
Gina (2:19:50 PM): actually I almost went
Gina (2:19:57 PM): last Thursday
Gina (2:19:57 PM): for
Gina (2:20:01 PM): some homeless thing
Gina (2:20:03 PM): anyway
Kevin (2:20:07 PM): What?
Gina (2:20:15 PM): you get more people involved by getting more people aware
Kevin (2:20:29 PM): Of course
Gina (2:20:44 PM): I bet I can find about 5 people who don't even know what continent darfur is on
Kevin (2:21:04 PM): But you cant just make awareness policy is what I’m saying.
Gina (2:21:09 PM): so you don't always have to help through being directly involved
Gina (2:21:25 PM): society is just a mess
Kevin (2:21:30 PM): I bet most people will reason Darfur to be in Africa, but I think few will know it’s in
Gina (2:21:39 PM): look how many people knew about and cared about
Gina (2:21:41 PM): meanwhile
Kevin (2:21:43 PM): Society is six billion people living together, of course it’s a mess.
Gina (2:21:48 PM): there were thousands
Gina (2:21:54 PM): and thousands
Gina (2:22:01 PM): being killed in
Kevin (2:22:08 PM): SIX BILLION PEOPLE LIVING THEIR OWN LIVES, IT IS THE MOST OVERWHELING THING ON EARTH.
Gina (2:22:26 PM): I mean
Kevin (2:22:22 PM): That’s what society IS
Gina (2:22:28 PM): people in
Gina (2:22:30 PM): society
Gina (2:22:32 PM): well
Gina (2:22:33 PM): AMERICAN
Gina (2:22:34 PM): society
Gina (2:22:38 PM): as far as I’m informed about
Gina (2:22:47 PM): have their priorities all wrong
Gina (2:22:57 PM): they need to get their shit together
Kevin (2:22:57 PM): American Society is the most productive, giving society in the history of mankind.
Gina (2:23:18 PM): yes I know
Gina (2:23:20 PM): I mean
Gina (2:23:28 PM): they did help to get rid of communism,
Gina (2:23:29 PM): HA
Gina (2:23:42 PM): and instilled in people's minds that it was horrible
Gina (2:23:50 PM): when in fact in theory
Gina (2:23:54 PM): it could work
Kevin (2:24:02 PM): hahaha
Kevin (2:24:17 PM): Yeah okay. Look at life as a soviet
Gina (2:24:30 PM): fine
Gina (2:24:32 PM): *fine
Gina (2:24:34 PM): let me then
Kevin (2:24:37 PM): Go for it. Enjoy :-)
Gina (2:24:49 PM): I’m open to suggestions
Gina (2:24:51 PM): but as of now
Gina (2:25:00 PM): I’m a commie
Gina (2:25:12 PM): that’s the only way
Gina (2:25:18 PM): things will get better
Kevin (2:25:30 PM): Right. Just look at how much better all the other communist revolutions have turned out
Gina (2:25:44 PM): well their leaders
Gina (2:25:49 PM): didn't follow
Gina (2:25:58 PM): the right idea
Kevin (2:25:56 PM): So communism would work if you have an incorruptible as chief?
Gina (2:26:07 PM): of letting go of self interest
Kevin (2:26:08 PM): So who's going to run your commune, Jesus?
Gina (2:26:22 PM): no one
Kevin (2:26:20 PM): Right.
Gina (2:26:51 PM): people will hold hands and sing and dance and go down the street skipping.
Gina (2:27:06 PM): hey listen I don't have an answer for everything
Kevin (2:27:09 PM): hahah
Gina (2:27:19 PM): the only thing I’m as close to sure of is this
Gina (2:27:38 PM): things are getting worse
Gina (2:27:52 PM): and people need to see this
Kevin (2:27:49 PM): Of course, me either. I have tons of questions but few answers. I just rest my optimism in the fact that things have improved, and my belief that the infrastructure is in place for things to continue to improve.
Gina (2:27:59 PM): and even attempt to help
Gina (2:28:15 PM): I’m not just saying things are getting bad
Gina (2:28:19 PM): and then do nothing
Kevin (2:28:17 PM): Well then, we have exact opposite views of reality
Gina (2:28:30 PM): that’s fine with me
Kevin (2:28:34 PM): Cool
Gina (2:28:42 PM): ok
Gina (2:28:45 PM): well I have work so
Gina (2:28:46 PM): so
Gina (2:28:59 PM): I’m putting the rest of my ideas on hold
Kevin (2:28:55 PM): Cheers!
Kevin (2:28:57 PM): Okay
Kevin (2:28:58 PM): hahaha
Gina (2:29:16 PM): so I decided
Gina (2:29:18 PM): when and if
Gina (2:29:24 PM): I study abroad for a semester
Gina (2:29:26 PM): I’m going to
Gina (2:29:30 PM): Africa
Kevin (2:29:38 PM): okay. Be safe.
Gina (2:29:57 PM): it’s
Kevin (2:30:03 PM): its
Kevin (2:30:04 PM): LAWL
Gina (2:30:17 PM): huh?
Kevin (2:30:16 PM): :-D
Kevin (2:30:22 PM): get it!? GET IT?
Kevin (2:30:26 PM):
Gina (2:30:35 PM): haha
Kevin (2:30:31 PM): GONNA BE DANGEROUS
Gina (2:30:38 PM): not really
Gina (2:30:58 PM): its actually pretty
Gina (2:31:00 PM): safe
Kevin (2:31:04 PM): good
Kevin (2:31:23 PM): I need to get some laundry done
Gina (2:31:36 PM): you mean
Gina (2:31:41 PM): have your mom do your laundry
Gina (2:31:46 PM): since you've been home
Kevin (2:31:54 PM): No, I mean, do all the family's laundry, because my family is all at work
Gina (2:32:05 PM): ha
Kevin (2:32:07 PM): or school
Kevin (2:32:27 PM): yeah
Kevin (2:32:29 PM): WELL
Kevin (2:32:32 PM): ITS BEEN GOOD
Kevin (2:32:38 PM): CRUSHING YOUR HOPES AND DREAMS
Gina (2:32:47 PM): nope
Gina (2:32:49 PM): not crushed
Kevin (2:32:48 PM): Crusht!
Gina (2:32:56 PM): nope
Kevin (2:32:55 PM): hahaha
Gina (2:33:01 PM): can't crush me
Kevin (2:33:06 PM): I'm corporate, of course I can!
Gina (2:33:11 PM): I’m too stubborn
Gina (2:33:53 PM): ok well I’m gonna go watch society at its finest...mtv stupid reality shows
Kevin (2:33:59 PM): Ah well. It’s okay. Your stubbornness comes from guilt associated with self interest I think
Gina (2:34:09 PM): nope
Kevin (2:34:08 PM): And that’s not bad
Kevin (2:34:17 PM): It’s just... I think its counterproductive
Gina (2:34:27 PM): at least I feel guilty
Kevin (2:34:25 PM): I think you should embrace your self interests
Gina (2:34:31 PM): if that’s what you're saying
Gina (2:34:40 PM): and I’m not
Gina (2:34:41 PM): blinded
Kevin (2:34:37 PM): because if you’re a good person and do good things, it will benefit society and yourself.
Gina (2:34:44 PM): *blinded
Gina (2:35:06 PM): I think my sister has enough self-interests for the both of us
Kevin (2:35:09 PM): There's no reason to feel guilty for living your life for yourself. If you do it honorably, nothing bad can be said of it.
Kevin (2:35:35 PM): The glory of being a martyr is short lived Gina.
Kevin (2:35:39 PM): Because, then you're dead.
Gina (2:35:55 PM): ha
Gina (2:35:58 PM): nice pun
Kevin (2:35:54 PM): God, I wonder if I quoted that, because that ruled.
Gina (2:36:10 PM): I’m not a martyr
Gina (2:36:12 PM): I just have
Gina (2:36:15 PM): good intentions
Gina (2:36:20 PM): or at least I try
Gina (2:36:34 PM): ok
Gina (2:36:37 PM): LATER KID
Kevin (2:36:36 PM): LATER GRANDMA.
Gina (2:36:43 PM): have fun with your friends
Gina (2:36:50 PM): and I mean
Gina (2:36:54 PM): HAVE FUN
Gina (2:36:57 PM): you need it
Kevin (2:36:54 PM): I GUESS I HAVE TO WITHOUT MY BABY
Kevin (2:37:02 PM): :-(
Gina (2:37:12 PM): jeeze sounds like
Gina (2:37:20 PM): a daunting task
Gina (2:37:28 PM): having fun
Gina (2:37:36 PM): with your friends
Gina (2:37:38 PM): should be fun
Kevin (2:37:48 PM): Nah, it will be fun. I'll just be missing her.
Gina (2:38:00 PM): if your friends are even willing to have fun with you
Gina (2:38:10 PM): god you owe them
Kevin (2:38:16 PM): You have no idea what you're talking about.
Kevin (2:38:24 PM): Like, you haven't this whole time, but especially now.
Kevin (2:38:28 PM): ;-)
Gina (2:38:34 PM): fine
Gina (2:38:35 PM): sure
Gina (2:38:37 PM): whatev
Kevin (2:38:35 PM): hahaha
Gina (2:38:43 PM): call me stupid
Kevin (2:38:39 PM): have a good day at work
Gina (2:38:49 PM): but I’m in college
Kevin (2:38:45 PM): I’m not calling you stupid
Gina (2:39:07 PM): LATER
